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The Clements’ IVF Journey

Yay for abortions, nay for euthanizing the baby first so it doesn’t feel pain…? May 22, 2009

Filed under: Ugh — Aria @ 8:26 am

NO, I am not getting an abortion. Hell no!!

I’ve been mildly debating abortion for the past couple days, and am trying not to let myself get angry at those who think an unborn baby doesn’t feel, so it’s not inhumane. Also I’m very sick of everyone thinking being pro-life is a religious thing and pro-lifers are just religious zealots trying to push their god-based beliefs off on others. Well, I’m agnostic, and if I’m wrong and there is a god, as I see it, he can fuck off and go to hell. So trying to push “the will of god” onto others is really the furthest thing from my mind.

If this is a topic you don’t want to get into, or you don’t want to be offended if you’re one of the cruel, evil people I will mention, then stop reading now.  I fully expect someone reading this will get offended.  Well, better to be offended that I’m calling you an idiot than to be ripped limb from limb without anything for the pain.  Better to be called an idiot that to live with the knowledge that every day, thousands of people are dying from torture, and only a minority of people think it’s wrong.

Read ahead at your own risk.  You lose the right to complain if you read.  You’ve been warned.

Now in this debate, the topic isn’t the ethics behind abortion being right or wrong. Some people are just to selfish to put themselves aside for the child they created. Birth control fails, accept it. I’ve been in the position, when I was 18 and still fertile, and, despite the “father” being abusive to me, abortion wasn’t going to happen. That’s what adoption is for. If I hadn’t miscarried, at any rate.

No, the debate is about the baby’s pain. I said that, at the VERY least, the baby should get a euthanizing shot so pain isn’t felt.  “But a fetus can’t feel anything that young.”  Um, bullshit.  And why the hell not at least err on the side of caution?  It’s a cheap shot.  Why not try to spare the baby pain?  “There are adults with brain injuries who can’t feel pain.”  And they’re in the teeny teensy tiny minority of people, and how likely is a baby a few months in utero likely to have a brain injury?  We don’t hang child-raping murderers because it’s inhumane, even if it is a very quick death.  We don’t decapitate because that’s also inhumane, even though the guillotine instantly severs the ability to feel pain from the body.  Yet babies are killed by being ripped apart.  This death penalty has NEVER been legal in the US and, in the UK, was reserved for only the rarest of executions (the list of people in UK history sentenced to death like this is surprisingly short).  Yet it’s done at the rate of thousands per day for unborn children who did nothing wrong.

But yet babies feel pain when being killed through abortion.  The Abortion Facts website, which is, if anything, leaning a bit more toward the pro-choice camp, doesn’t even deny this is painful.

You want PROOF you say?  Other than documentation?  You want proof you can see?  Video or it didn’t happen?  Fine!  Here.  Start watching this video at 12:44 in.   I recommend watching the entire video, but this segment at 12:44 starts the video of abortion.  No, not what the woman goes through.  It’s an ultrasound of what the baby is going through.  Dr. Nathanson  goes over how an abortion is done earlier on in the video.

Okay, now before you say that this guy is making a lot of money on this film, think about this: Dr. Bernard Nathanson was one of the three founding members of the National Association for the Repeal of Abortion Laws, also known as NARAL Pro-Choice America.  NARAL is largely credited with getting Roe v. Wade passed, and still works to expand access to abortions,   He was the director of one of the largest abortion clinics in the US, with over 75,000 to his credit.  So the money was in doing tens of thousands of abortions, not doing a film that is freely released.  What does it say when one of the biggest abortion-rights advocates out there, without whom abortion might still be 100% illegal, is speaking against it?

It’s important to realize that Roe v. Wade was passed before ultrasounds became available to see what a baby goes through when being aborted.  The link I gave goes to this video.  You can watch the heart rate elevate, a baby that was just chilling in the womb, doing not much, suddenly panicking (elevating heart rate verifies this) and moving violently away from the probe.  It’s easy to see a tiny mouth open in what is appropriately called a silent scream.  We can’t hear it, but for fuck’s sake, IT’S CLEARLY SCREAMING.

Another part of this debate has been whether or not there should be a law requiring a woman to be informed of the stage of development her baby is in and for her to see an ultrasound, as well as a separate law requiring a woman to speak with a doctor and a counselor before being allowed a abortion.  This is being called an “anti-choice” to want a woman to be informed of what’s going on and to want her to have to talk to a counselor who can help her if she’s being threatened into aborting.  It’s incredibly stupid to say that this is an attempt to guilt a woman into keeping a baby.  If a woman is making the decision to abort without the facts of what’s going on, then she’s not making an informed decision.  If she’d change her mind if she knew that a heart was beating, then did she really want the abortion in the first place?  Denying what’s going on doesn’t change what is happening any more than abstinence-only education makes it so that teens aren’t having sex.  Not making sure someone is informed and educated is truly evil.  If that’s not pushing an agenda, I don’t know what is.  Trying to keep the facts from a woman so she’ll choose an abortion is possibly even more wrong than abortion itself.  It’s advocating keeping women in the dark and then expecting them to make good medical decisions.  And the part about the counselor is wrong?  It’s a GOOD thing to have someone trained  to help ensure a woman is not having an abortion because the father threatened to beat her ass if she didn’t so that he could make her have one.  To argue against this is arguing in the extreme that violence against women is a-okay, let’s protect the abusers if it means she’ll just sign and get rid of the baby.

What is the harm in wanting women to know to know what is going on with their babies what to expect, and for the baby to at least get a shot to put it to sleep?  Really, trying to deny these things indicates that someone is mentally sick.  I hope none of my pro-choice friends would find a problem with euthanizing a baby first or with a woman being fully informed about what’s going and a counselor being there to try to be sure that she’s not being threatened.  Shouldn’t a woman have the right to be fully informed before making a decision that can’t be reversed?  Shouldn’t she have the right to be safe from abuse?  Shouldn’t the baby have the right to life, or, at the very least, to not have to suffer terribly?

I’m not even debating the wrongness of abortion anymore.  It’s wrong, no doubt, but Americans in general are too selfish to put anyone else first especially an unplanned baby conceived from their own action, and Americans in general don’t care two shits about the suffering of others, even if lessening the pain is a very, very cheap shot to give.

Also, if the opposite of being pro-choice is anti-choice, then the opposite of pro-life is anti-life.  Anyone who says “anti-choice” needs to shut up or else start referring to themselves as anti-life.


3 Responses to “Yay for abortions, nay for euthanizing the baby first so it doesn’t feel pain…?”

  1. Aria Says:

    Except, omgandromeda, it’s the BABY’S body you are ripping to shreds for your own convenience. How ca you argue that what the baby feels doesn’t matter? It’s evil that anyone could be against, at the VERY least, euthanizing the baby first so it doesn’t feel its body torn to bits. Animals are shown more compassion than human beings.

    Also I’ve NEVER been pro-choice. Hell no. And my time “childfree” was trying to accept children might not be possible. Childless trying to be okay with it. It’s called trying to cope.

    I’d so much rather be myself, “being Aria,” as you call it, and not afraid to voice my beliefs, than to be anyone else afraid to say the slightest thing that may go against the mainstream. I’m not out to seek approval, and I don’t live my life afraid a group of people will turn on me because I have a belief, thought, etc., that is different from what that group says it should be. I’m not worried about anyone losing respect for being pro-life, pro-fathers’-rights, etc.. The only respect I’d worry about losing is my own, and that is what would happen if I let the desire for respect from others result in me altering, at the least, what I’ll say I believe, just to fit in. I’d much rather be Aria and be on the outside and unpopular than to be someone I’m not to be on the inside and strive for acceptance and popularity among a group that is unable to accept that people have different opinions that as just as valid as their own.

  2. Aria Says:

    Damn right I’m against abortion. Anti-choice sums it up. A man’s choice is whether to have sex and risk it, or to keep it in his pants. Parenthood can be forced on a man. So this is good enough for a woman. Either risk the possibility of giving birth, or keep your panties on.

    And I have yet to see any proof that the video was faked, just anti-lifers claiming it without backing it up. Show me a video of an unborn baby completely relaxed while being sucked apart. If the video is fake and the babies feel nada, why, in so many years, has there not been a video to counter it? Sure, ultrasounds existed prior to Roe v. Wade, but this doesn’t mean they were routine in obstetrics.

  3. The video is not faked and I’d personally like to see another done in 4D so people could clearly see that it is not just a “clump of cells” If you have a strong stomach please take the time to go to:
    and view the video of what an abortion really is. Warning it is pretty graphic and NSFW nor around kids! The estimate is that 1/4 of the people under the age of 35 were not born in the USA. Think about that for a minute….

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